This is the forum for the Wright family and relatives where we share our tastes of movies, music, books, and tv. You can write a review, complain, or tell the family you have just experienced a MUST SEE/READ!
Great selection of pictures Em. Good to seem him smile for once. Kissing is guitar is cool too. And zonked out on the studio floor is great. Can't wait to see them someday with you!
Dang, I missed my chance a few weeks ago to post a "Happy Birthday, love you, kisses" tribute to Meat Loaf, the greatest rock and roll singer of all time! Watch out next September. I'll post so many pictures of him sweating his guts out that you'll feel like grabbing a towel to wipe yourselves off!
Oh, BTW, Happy birthday Jonny (whoever you are. Apparently some sort of guitar player?) hee hee
Definitely not good looking and completely gross when he starts sweating, which is often. That's part of what makes him such fun! Total commitment in every song/performance.... Could pretty boy Jonny ever convince someone that "life is a lemon and he wants his money back" or that someone's been cold to him so long that he's "crying icicles instead of tears"?
You know you got them there Dan. Radiohead and "pretty boy Jonny" are too busy writing lyrics like "and true love waits in haunted attics, and true love lives on lollipops and crisps" and "you are the sun and moon and stars are you, and I could never run away from you" and "wax me, mold me, heat the pins and stab them in, you have turned me into this just wish that it was bullet proof." and "i jumped in the river and what did I see? black-eyed angels swimming with me a moon full of stars and astral cars all the figures i used to see all my lovers were there with me all my past and futures and we all went to heaven in a little row boat. There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt" and of course a personal favorite, "Faith, you're driving me away, you do it every day. You don't mean it but it hurts like hell." to come up with any such gems as what Meatloaf comes up with. What the bip is up with "I would do anything for love, but I won't do that"? Please tell me what "that" is?? It's been bothering me since high school.
Alas, though, Jonny doesn't write lyrics (except for one song "The Tourist" -which is awesome-) he writes the music and is a little too busy playing like 6 different instruments and sometimes more then one at a time. Poor Jonny- maybe someday he can just stand there and sweat and act dramatic. For now though, he is too busy playing the h out of his guitar.
Love it, Em! Like Jonny, Meat doesn't write the lyrics. He doesn't even write the songs. The main guy is named Jim Steinman. Meat is primarily the performer.
By the way, did anyone catch in the recent Glee episode that it was Meat Loaf along with Barry Bostwick as the cable news guys getting Sue all riled up to rip on the Rocky Horror Picture Show the McKinley High Glee Club was putting on? Too funny! (Bostwick played Brad and Meat Loaf played Eddie in the film.) I loved that they brought them in for this episode! BTW, Meat is really quite a decent actor. You should check out his film credits some time.
Anyway, Em, on the question about what it is that Meat won’t do for love--lots of people ask that, and I had to listen for a long time to catch on that the "that" changes throughout the song.
Early on, it’s “he’ll never lie” to her. Next it’s that he’ll “never forget the way [she] feels right now.” Later it’s he’ll “never forgive [himself] if [they] don’t go all the way, tonight.” Next it’s that he’ll “never do it better than [he does] it with [her] right now.”
Then you get two others in the final section of the song when it moves into one of the patented dialogue sections between him and the woman he’s singing to:
Here are the fourth and fifth of these exchanges:
[Girl] After awhile you'll forget everything. It was a brief interlude And a midsummer night's fling, And you'll see that it's time to move on.
[Boy] I won't do that. I won't do that.
[Girl} I know the territory, I've been around, It'll all turn to dust and will all fall down, Sooner or later, you'll be screwing around.
Wow. I don't know whether to be impressed or embarrassed for you for spending so much time and thought on that song.
As for album sales- I'm going to have to do a little research and get back to you. But as a lover of Indy music I am sure you know I don't give a rat tail about album sales.
Radiohead: I checked sales for Ok Computer (most successful album) and they sold 6 million copies
Meatloaf: Bat out of Hell sold 43 million.
BUT you're only as good as your last album right? In Rainbows has sold 3 million- "Hang Cool Teddy Bear" sold about 100,000.
Radiohead: Has been nominated 40 times for various awards and has won 11- including 3 grammys for Best Alternative Rock Album, and 2 wins (out of two noms) for the Plug Awards -the Indie Music Awards-.
Meatloaf: Now I am not totally convinced of this, but I seriously couldn't find much in the way of awards for old Meatloaf. I did find a Grammy win for best rock vocal performance for "I'd Do Anything For Love".
Ok Computer: #162 - Rolling Stone's list of Greatest Albums of All Time
Bat out of Hell: #343
Radiohead: #73 - Rolling Stone's Greatest Artists of All Time List
Meatloaf: #96 - Rolling Stone's Greatest Hard Rock Artists (Gee I couldn't find him anywhere on the Greatest Artists of all time list....)
Quit confusing us with facts (or more accurately what recent, trendy wannabe journalists preferring the shiny and new to the tried and true and pretending that they're facts). Tee hee.
43 million people and their family and friends blessed to hear about paradise by the dashboard light vs way less than half that number hearing about loves that live on lollipops and crisps....
And somewhere in the category of "greatest" you have to account for popularity, and it's Meat by a long shot!
Silly affairs no matter how you slice subjects like this. I just like to have fun knocking trendy stuff that you like (Radiohead) and defending trendy stuff I like (Coldplay and U2--even though i don't really care that much except that you and a sister or two hate them). I'm shallow like that....
You guys are hilarious! I have to chyme in here. To be honest, I have never been able to take Meat Loaf seriously. And aside from you Dan, I've NEVER met a Meat Loaf fan... That isn't saying a whole lot, I understand. Maybe I see him as a joke because I grew up seeing Rocky Horror Picture Show, but really? Meat Loaf??! I don't think you did much for your argument when you said: "Meat doesn't write the lyrics. He doesn't even write the songs... ...Meat is primarily the performer." So basically he is a pretty face, without the pretty face...? The other thing I had to say, was Radiohead came at a time (and is still in that time) where the music industry got shafted. Napster, lime wire, ipod swapping, land parties etc... KILLED album sales. There is no real way anymore to judge how much a band is really listened to. Except that some bands find out how popular they are when they start touring, and selling out shows and it's like, "oh wow, we do have fans." So you may want to take a look at and compare concert ticket sales for a more accurate judgment.
I can't even believe I am talking about this! RADIOHEAD AND MEAT LOAF???!!! Are you kidding me?!
OH! And another thing. Radiohead is a BANDS Band. meaning they influence artists like crazy. People that really understand and appreciate true music are blown away by Radiohead. How many artists have put Meat Loaf as their main influence? Haha! All in good fun Dan. Hope you don't mind I butted in. And I know Em doesn't need any support in this debate... she could go all day I'm sure. I just couldn't sit on the sidelines any longer and witness this on Johnny's love you, kisses tribute of all places.
1. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - The Beatles 2. Pet Sounds - The Beach Boys 3. Revolver - The Beatles 4. Highway 61 Revisited - Bob Dylan 5. Rubber Soul - The Beatles 6. What's Going On - Marvin Gaye 7. Exile on Main Street - The Rolling Stones 8. London Calling - The Clash 9. Blonde on Blonde - Bob Dylan 10. The Beatles ("The White Album") - The Beatles 11. The Sun Sessions - Elvis Presley 12. Kind of Blue - Miles Davis 13. Velvet Underground and Nico - The Velvet Underground 14. Abbey Road - The Beatles 15. Are You Experienced? - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 16. Blood on the Tracks - Bob Dylan 17. Nevermind - Nirvana 18. Born to Run - Bruce Springsteen 19. Astral Weeks - Van Morrison 20. Thriller - Michael Jackson 21. The Great Twenty-Eight - Chuck Berry 22. Plastic Ono Band - John Lennon 23. Innervisions - Stevie Wonder 24. Live at the Apollo (1963) - James Brown 25. Rumours - Fleetwood Mac
So of the top 25, which albums exactly are "shiny and new"? Also, I consider Rolling Stone to be pretty irrefutable when it comes to knowing their music. Do you have a better source?
I also take slight issue with Radiohead being "trendy". I know their reputation can be a little "complicated", but I challenge you to talk to 20 average joes on the street and see if they can name 5 Radiohead songs (I'll even let Creep count). I would be surprised if more then one could.
Also (this has little importance I know, but....)- The "lollipops and crisps" song was a song they strictly only played live for a long time until they included it on a live album some years ago. So I must say, many many less then 6 million have heard/purchased that song I'd guess. And yes, popularity does count for some things, I will give you that, but it counts for jack with me (so do awards for that matter, but I had to rub in their awards and noms of course when I saw Meat's were so scanty.)
Great points Matt! (Matt and I were posting at the same time, so I didn't get to read his before writing mine) I didn't even think about album sales and the internet. I should have thought of it since Radiohead had 2 albums stolen from their studio and released on the internet for free before they were even released! Two! Hmmmmm.... perhaps that is what happened to "Hang Cool Teddy Bear's" sales? Just trying to be diplomatic (haha! I couldn't even type that with a straight face. I WAS proud of myself however for skipping making fun of that album name in my first post. I wanted to- I assure you. I skipped another joke about it that occurred to me on THIS post.)
AALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of this having been said- I really don't mind Meat Loaf, I find some of his stuff catchy in a weird sort of way yet wouldn't ever be bothered to hunt out a song to download or anything. I Would Do Anything For Love is definitely too dramatic for my taste though (and too confusing -especially after Dan's explanations-) and while we're at it, I need one more thing explained about that song: why is he dressed up like Igor in that video?
And Matt- I know! Radiohead and Meat Loaf???? WTB?? Crazy world indeed. I also enjoyed your comments on Radiohead being a band's band. Too true.
Oh and another thing: You might want to look at Coldplay's main influence. It is widely known that it is not only Radiohead, but the album "OK Computer" is cited as their start up influence. Just a fun fact.
Wiki's Coldplay page:
Martin's primary influence is the British band Radiohead. In a 2008 Rolling Stone interview Martin stated: "Sometimes I feel like they [Radiohead] cleared a path with a machete, and we came afterward and put up a strip mall. I would still give my left [testicle] to write anything as good as OK Computer."
Side note:
Rob just walked in and asked me what I was doing. I said, (sheepishly) "still arguing about Radiohead vs. Meat Loaf" He rolls his eyes and then goes, "that really isn't even an argument".
Dang I'm a little bummed that I can't have the like, half-an-hour it to read all of that back. Funny, entertaining, but so not worth it. Radiohead and Meat Loaf? Really guys? Oh and also, I never got no stinking "love you kisses" on my birthday, but Mr. Cool-British-guy-who-likes-to-make-out-with-his-guitar-whose-name-is-probably-really-spelled-Johnny-but-spells-it-Jonny-cause-it-looks-more-indie gets one. I see how it is...
We aren't really doing love you kisses post this year (did we miss you last year? If so, we def owe you one.) For your info it is spelled "Jonny" because it is short for Jonathan, it's not serving as a nickname for John. Although Thom spells his "Thom", being short for Thomas, when many people with the same name spell it just "Tom". There is a long standing joke that Thom took Jonny's H. Maybe it's a British thing, I don't know, but I am sure this has been going on their whole lives before they even met or knew what "Indie" was.
You want that 30 seconds back? Well you can't have it.
Laughing about all this, too! As I mentioned very early in the notes, teasing and riling up Emily is a sport for me. She’s a formidable presence and, in general, I love trash talk, so this kind of banter is pure fun. Didn't realize anyone would really ever start defending positions. Music is too subjective for real argument, and our tastes and favorites emerge from our autobiographies.
For me, Meat Loaf's first Bat album came out when I was a senior in high school and it’s songs about trying to score with a girl down by the lake and all the other idiotic concerns of teenagers somehow caught hold with me—plus the intensity of the performances, of course. My high school friends and I would also go down to the Strand theater to see Rocky Horror. We weren’t motivated to dress up as the characters, but after the second or third time we definitely started bringing rice, toast, folded newspapers, and squirt guns and getting into all the shouting at the screen (A favorite: Riff Raff declares: “Dinner is served.” To which some people in the audience yell, “What’s for dinner?” and the rest of us yell, “Meat Loaf!”) and doing the Time Warp along with everyone else while waiting in line. Tons of fun!
I had a cassette version of Bat Out of Hell and would continue to play it in my car and room occasionally during college, but it wasn’t a huge part of my life. When Bat II came out in 1993, I heard a few singles on the radio (like “I’d Do Anything for Love…”) and it captivated me and those old memories again, so I bought it too. When we moved to Utah in July 1994, we arrived just a couple of days before Meat did a concert up at Park West (now The Canyons) and I really wished then we could have been settled in and I could have gone, but it didn’t happen.
Since then, almost my entire relationship with Meat Loaf has been a habit I got into of playing the first two Bat albums back-to-back whenever I had long drives in the car by myself. Time would fly as I’d scream every lyric without worrying about how bad my singing was/is (which truly IS terrible). I’d usually add in the whole Tommy album (The Who’s version, of course), singing all of it, as well. Next thing I knew, I had made it from SLC to Vegas or so without really having even thought about the long drive I was making.
That’s it! I don’t own any other albums of his. I can’t say I had even heard about Hang Cool Teddy Bear. I’m sure I now could only sing 80 percent of the lyrics of the first two Bat albums, but I’m cool with that and don’t feel compelled to go raiding any lyric sites to get myself back up to 100 percent. Maybe all this means I'm not a true fan (and I can tell I'm certainly not in the same way that Emily is with RH). Meat has a place in my heart and life story but I have no arguments to make for his being the greatest Rock and Roll singer of all time to anyone except me. It’s like if Haley were to claim that the Twilight books are the “best” books of all time. Our claims are simply based on how they captivated us at a certain time in our lives and have remained things of great affection.
If we kept going here, I’d challenge Matt on saying things like “true” music in defense of his and Em’s indie preferences if he meant that something being really popular makes it most likely fluff. I’d definitely keep digging at any pretentiousness that might arise in anyone’s defense of “their” music. In all of it, however, it would be sport. Pure sport.
Sport is fun. And that is all it is from us too Dan. Hope you know that.
I was seriously kidding about the "true music" thing. And almost didn't say it, thinking it wouldn't go over well for the very reasons which you said. AND HOLD ON A SEC... There are PLENTY of "popular" bands that I love. I would never say I didn't like something when inside I really do. No WAY. And the opposite is true. I am never ashamed to admit that I like a band, artist, or even just a song. And usually if I don't "like it", I at least respect it and can understand why someone would. I am quite opinionated at times though, on why I don't like something. I love music way to much to base what I like on if it's popular enough, or too popular. What makes me mad, is that I get accused of being a music snob all the time, and sense that people think that about me. But don't come out and say it. I even posted a facebook status about it quite a while ago, naming five or six "Popular" artists that I love. Example: The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Cake, Beastie Boys, Queen, Eve 6, Gwen Staffani, Cat Stevens, The Killers, Michael Jackson, Van Morrison, NEIL DIAMOND, Etc. I could keep going. Believe it or not, you know what song got in my head so much I ended up downloading it from itunes? That fairly new bubble gum pop song by The Ting Tings "That's not my name" Good music is good. And what is good to one, is bad to another. And to Haley Phister, Kenny-G is her favorite Christmas album.
I might have to talk to B about taking a second loan out so I can hire a private investigator to get secret hidden camera footage of you freaking out to Meat Loaf in your car all alone! I think after seeing that footage, I would be like Cartman on Southpark when he see's something that is SO funny, he doesn't laugh. And never laughs at anything ever again, because nothing will ever be that funny.
Well Dan, I find 95% of what you said in your last post impossible to argue. YES music is very subjective and the greatest to one is not the greatest to another. I am happy in your explanation as to why you consider Meat Loaf to be the greatest. More power to you and go on with that. For real. (and I am not using a factious or condescending tone- I mean it!)
In the defense of the popular music thing: There have been times in my life where the popular music was what I loved the 90's Nirvana grunge era sticks out in my head. Before Kurt hit the scene though I hated the popular stuff and listened to classic rock. After grunge died I liked SOME popular stuff (Beastie Boys come to mind), but I retreated into stuff like The Cure for the most part. (Then Radiohead fell in my radar and all was lost.) Snobbish or no, I just usually find popular music to be fluff. Sometimes fluff is ok, but I usually am looking for something different out of my music. I think my brain searches for something out of music that the general population does not. Who is to say what way is right? No one-- how your brain perceives and enjoys music is entirely up to that person's brain (there are plenty of people that can't stand and don't listen to anything other then Classical music- that's cool too). I think generally (and the charts support this) people are looking for a catchy tune or something they can dance to or a sappy love song that says exactly what their heart says too, etc. That's not me. Generally, the really catchy songs seem to be so void of anything interesting to me, I have no interest, I don't go to dance clubs, I used to like love songs a little more then I do now and I chalk that up to having found Rob, I feel like I don't need that anymore- I have the real stuff at home. Anyway, that's why I feel like I am not into popular music. I hope that doesn't sound like I consider myself above it or anything, I honestly just have little interest in pop. I don't think I look down on the people that like it, it's their bag, you know? There are also exceptions to these rules, right now I can't think of anything specific, but like Matt, if I come across a popular song that I like, I have no bones letting anyone know. I do admit to having a certain distaste for "artists" that come on to the scene that don't write songs, don't sing well, and get hit records because they were marketed well and are dressed like a doll and someone told everyone that they are the next big thing. I HATE that. I respect real talent, and will acknowledge it whether I find the music enjoyable or not. Ok, sometimes I have a hard time respecting country music and heavy metal. My brain doesn't function on normal levels when the two are played and thus, I admit an inablilty to recognize talent in these arenas. I didn't say I was perfect.
Love me or leave me, these are my views. Also- I like all those bands Matt listed that he considers popular. The Beatles were/are popular- I like those guys.
"oh no, pop is dead, it just gave up we raise the dead but they won't stand up and radio has salmonella
so what pop is dead it's no great loss so many facelifts, his face flew off" -Radiohead, Pop is Dead
Night Ned. (That's mine and Matt's send off when we've been texting til 2 in the morning. It just seemed appropriate cause I'm tired.)
Great stuff, guys! Fun to hear more about why you gravitate to where you do. In general I don't like the more popular songs/groups either; something will really have to get big before I even hear it as I don't listen to regular, contemporary hits-type radio and have to keep seeing repeated references to even notice. And I'm totally with Em on manufactured artists. I refuse to learn anything about the Miley, the Bieb, Ke$ha, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, etc. Hope will make me listen to songs of theirs sometimes, but otherwise I'm clueless (and deliberately so).
I've got three iTunes playlists--one with with my top 125, one with top 300ish, and one with my top 700 or so songs in them. If I'm listening at the computer while I work, it's always from one of these. When short-distance driving, nowadays its mostly podcasts and occasional NPR, but when it's music, its almost always from these lists or maybe an oldies or classic rock station. Creature of habit? Trapped in the past? I need a shrink...
At the computer during down time, I have begun to occasionally search for Arcade Fire and Pixies and Radiohead to see if I can find a way in. So far I have connected best with Arcade Fire. Thanks, guys, for talking about these groups and helping me try to expand my horizons. I'll keep exploring more with them.
Separate subject (okay, a "back to Meat Loaf" subject brief return): Do any of you like "Total Eclipse of the Heart" (Bonnie Tyler) or "Making Love Out of Nothing at All" (Air Supply)? It is totally interesting to me that I loved those songs/became obsessed almost when they first came out (and still like them a lot) only to learn much later that they were both written by Jim Steinman, who wrote the songs for the various Bat out of Hell albums of Meat Loaf. So maybe I'm really a Jim Steinman fan? Probably has a lot to do with it, though I still dig Meat's intensity and think he has a great voice.
Music was never a part of my life like it with you guys and Matt. Just a slip of DNA I guess. I do appreciate good music and talent, but don't eat, breathe and sleep over who is good or what I like etc. I watched the last half of Michael Jackson (this is it!) last night on my HDTV and choked up a little at the end. Dan: I too really, really liked and still do the Air Supply and Bonnie Tyler songs you mentioned. I even gave a talk to our youth when I was a Bishop using the theme "Making Love Out of Nothing at All". Think about it for a minute and you can think of lots of tie-ins to correct love relationships.
31 comments:
Happy Birthday Mr. Greenwood.
Great selection of pictures Em. Good to seem him smile for once. Kissing is guitar is cool too. And zonked out on the studio floor is great. Can't wait to see them someday with you!
Dang, I missed my chance a few weeks ago to post a "Happy Birthday, love you, kisses" tribute to Meat Loaf, the greatest rock and roll singer of all time! Watch out next September. I'll post so many pictures of him sweating his guts out that you'll feel like grabbing a towel to wipe yourselves off!
Oh, BTW, Happy birthday Jonny (whoever you are. Apparently some sort of guitar player?) hee hee
Of Radiohead! Who else would Em post about 30 pictures of? :)
Absolutely, who else would she post about?! I was just adding some of my typical Em teasing in asking who he was... One of my favorite sports.
Like Meatloaf, but don't think looking at a bunch of pictures of him is my activity of choice. Not the best looking dude.;)
Definitely not good looking and completely gross when he starts sweating, which is often. That's part of what makes him such fun! Total commitment in every song/performance.... Could pretty boy Jonny ever convince someone that "life is a lemon and he wants his money back" or that someone's been cold to him so long that he's "crying icicles instead of tears"?
You know you got them there Dan. Radiohead and "pretty boy Jonny" are too busy writing lyrics like "and true love waits in haunted attics, and true love lives on lollipops and crisps" and "you are the sun and moon and stars are you, and I could never run away from you" and "wax me, mold me, heat the pins and stab them in, you have turned me into this just wish that it was bullet proof." and "i jumped in the river and what did I see?
black-eyed angels swimming with me
a moon full of stars and astral cars
all the figures i used to see
all my lovers were there with me
all my past and futures
and we all went to heaven in a little row boat. There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt" and of course a personal favorite, "Faith, you're driving me away, you do it every day. You don't mean it but it hurts like hell." to come up with any such gems as what Meatloaf comes up with. What the bip is up with "I would do anything for love, but I won't do that"? Please tell me what "that" is?? It's been bothering me since high school.
Alas, though, Jonny doesn't write lyrics (except for one song "The Tourist" -which is awesome-) he writes the music and is a little too busy playing like 6 different instruments and sometimes more then one at a time. Poor Jonny- maybe someday he can just stand there and sweat and act dramatic. For now though, he is too busy playing the h out of his guitar.
Wow! Nice rant, Ems. You are awesome. Let's see.....Roses are Red, Violets...
Love it, Em! Like Jonny, Meat doesn't write the lyrics. He doesn't even write the songs. The main guy is named Jim Steinman. Meat is primarily the performer.
By the way, did anyone catch in the recent Glee episode that it was Meat Loaf along with Barry Bostwick as the cable news guys getting Sue all riled up to rip on the Rocky Horror Picture Show the McKinley High Glee Club was putting on? Too funny! (Bostwick played Brad and Meat Loaf played Eddie in the film.) I loved that they brought them in for this episode! BTW, Meat is really quite a decent actor. You should check out his film credits some time.
Anyway, Em, on the question about what it is that Meat won’t do for love--lots of people ask that, and I had to listen for a long time to catch on that the "that" changes throughout the song.
Early on, it’s “he’ll never lie” to her. Next it’s that he’ll “never forget the way [she] feels right now.” Later it’s he’ll “never forgive [himself] if [they] don’t go all the way, tonight.” Next it’s that he’ll “never do it better than [he does] it with [her] right now.”
Then you get two others in the final section of the song when it moves into one of the patented dialogue sections between him and the woman he’s singing to:
Here are the fourth and fifth of these exchanges:
[Girl]
After awhile you'll forget everything.
It was a brief interlude
And a midsummer night's fling,
And you'll see that it's time to move on.
[Boy]
I won't do that. I won't do that.
[Girl}
I know the territory, I've been around,
It'll all turn to dust and will all fall down,
Sooner or later, you'll be screwing around.
[Boy]
I won't do that. I won't do that.
Too funny on maybe Jonny can sometime down the road "just stand there and sweat and act dramatic." Great rip!
Now let's talk album sales . . .
Wow. I don't know whether to be impressed or embarrassed for you for spending so much time and thought on that song.
As for album sales- I'm going to have to do a little research and get back to you. But as a lover of Indy music I am sure you know I don't give a rat tail about album sales.
Alright here are the stats:
Radiohead:
I checked sales for Ok Computer (most successful album) and they sold 6 million copies
Meatloaf:
Bat out of Hell sold 43 million.
BUT you're only as good as your last album right? In Rainbows has sold 3 million-
"Hang Cool Teddy Bear" sold about 100,000.
Radiohead:
Has been nominated 40 times for various awards and has won 11- including 3 grammys for Best Alternative Rock Album, and 2 wins (out of two noms) for the Plug Awards -the Indie Music Awards-.
Meatloaf:
Now I am not totally convinced of this, but I seriously couldn't find much in the way of awards for old Meatloaf. I did find a Grammy win for best rock vocal performance for "I'd Do Anything For Love".
Ok Computer:
#162 - Rolling Stone's list of Greatest Albums of All Time
Bat out of Hell:
#343
Radiohead:
#73 - Rolling Stone's Greatest Artists of All Time List
Meatloaf:
#96 - Rolling Stone's Greatest Hard Rock Artists (Gee I couldn't find him anywhere on the Greatest Artists of all time list....)
Quit confusing us with facts (or more accurately what recent, trendy wannabe journalists preferring the shiny and new to the tried and true and pretending that they're facts). Tee hee.
43 million people and their family and friends blessed to hear about paradise by the dashboard light vs way less than half that number hearing about loves that live on lollipops and crisps....
And somewhere in the category of "greatest" you have to account for popularity, and it's Meat by a long shot!
Silly affairs no matter how you slice subjects like this. I just like to have fun knocking trendy stuff that you like (Radiohead) and defending trendy stuff I like (Coldplay and U2--even though i don't really care that much except that you and a sister or two hate them). I'm shallow like that....
You guys are hilarious! I have to chyme in here.
To be honest, I have never been able to take Meat Loaf seriously. And aside from you Dan, I've NEVER met a Meat Loaf fan... That isn't saying a whole lot, I understand. Maybe I see him as a joke because I grew up seeing Rocky Horror Picture Show, but really? Meat Loaf??! I don't think you did much for your argument when you said: "Meat doesn't write the lyrics. He doesn't even write the songs... ...Meat is primarily the performer."
So basically he is a pretty face, without the pretty face...?
The other thing I had to say, was Radiohead came at a time (and is still in that time) where the music industry got shafted. Napster, lime wire, ipod swapping, land parties etc... KILLED album sales.
There is no real way anymore to judge how much a band is really listened to. Except that some bands find out how popular they are when they start touring, and selling out shows and it's like, "oh wow, we do have fans."
So you may want to take a look at and compare concert ticket sales for a more accurate judgment.
I can't even believe I am talking about this!
RADIOHEAD AND MEAT LOAF???!!! Are you kidding me?!
OH! And another thing. Radiohead is a BANDS Band. meaning they influence artists like crazy. People that really understand and appreciate true music are blown away by Radiohead. How many artists have put Meat Loaf as their main influence?
Haha! All in good fun Dan. Hope you don't mind I butted in. And I know Em doesn't need any support in this debate... she could go all day I'm sure. I just couldn't sit on the sidelines any longer and witness this on Johnny's love you, kisses tribute of all places.
Oh, and his lyrics crack me up.
Hang Cool Teddybear?
Fact:
Top 25 Greatest Albums of All Time
1. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - The Beatles
2. Pet Sounds - The Beach Boys
3. Revolver - The Beatles
4. Highway 61 Revisited - Bob Dylan
5. Rubber Soul - The Beatles
6. What's Going On - Marvin Gaye
7. Exile on Main Street - The Rolling Stones
8. London Calling - The Clash
9. Blonde on Blonde - Bob Dylan
10. The Beatles ("The White Album") - The Beatles
11. The Sun Sessions - Elvis Presley
12. Kind of Blue - Miles Davis
13. Velvet Underground and Nico - The Velvet Underground
14. Abbey Road - The Beatles
15. Are You Experienced? - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
16. Blood on the Tracks - Bob Dylan
17. Nevermind - Nirvana
18. Born to Run - Bruce Springsteen
19. Astral Weeks - Van Morrison
20. Thriller - Michael Jackson
21. The Great Twenty-Eight - Chuck Berry
22. Plastic Ono Band - John Lennon
23. Innervisions - Stevie Wonder
24. Live at the Apollo (1963) - James Brown
25. Rumours - Fleetwood Mac
So of the top 25, which albums exactly are "shiny and new"? Also, I consider Rolling Stone to be pretty irrefutable when it comes to knowing their music. Do you have a better source?
I also take slight issue with Radiohead being "trendy". I know their reputation can be a little "complicated", but I challenge you to talk to 20 average joes on the street and see if they can name 5 Radiohead songs (I'll even let Creep count). I would be surprised if more then one could.
Also (this has little importance I know, but....)- The "lollipops and crisps" song was a song they strictly only played live for a long time until they included it on a live album some years ago. So I must say, many many less then 6 million have heard/purchased that song I'd guess. And yes, popularity does count for some things, I will give you that, but it counts for jack with me (so do awards for that matter, but I had to rub in their awards and noms of course when I saw Meat's were so scanty.)
Great points Matt! (Matt and I were posting at the same time, so I didn't get to read his before writing mine) I didn't even think about album sales and the internet. I should have thought of it since Radiohead had 2 albums stolen from their studio and released on the internet for free before they were even released! Two! Hmmmmm.... perhaps that is what happened to "Hang Cool Teddy Bear's" sales? Just trying to be diplomatic (haha! I couldn't even type that with a straight face. I WAS proud of myself however for skipping making fun of that album name in my first post. I wanted to- I assure you. I skipped another joke about it that occurred to me on THIS post.)
AALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of this having been said- I really don't mind Meat Loaf, I find some of his stuff catchy in a weird sort of way yet wouldn't ever be bothered to hunt out a song to download or anything. I Would Do Anything For Love is definitely too dramatic for my taste though (and too confusing -especially after Dan's explanations-) and while we're at it, I need one more thing explained about that song: why is he dressed up like Igor in that video?
And Matt- I know! Radiohead and Meat Loaf???? WTB?? Crazy world indeed. I also enjoyed your comments on Radiohead being a band's band. Too true.
Sad Pink Floyd doesn't have an album on that list...
Good to see London Calling on there though! Long live Punk!
Oh and another thing: You might want to look at Coldplay's main influence. It is widely known that it is not only Radiohead, but the album "OK Computer" is cited as their start up influence. Just a fun fact.
Wiki's Coldplay page:
Martin's primary influence is the British band Radiohead. In a 2008 Rolling Stone interview Martin stated: "Sometimes I feel like they [Radiohead] cleared a path with a machete, and we came afterward and put up a strip mall. I would still give my left [testicle] to write anything as good as OK Computer."
Side note:
Rob just walked in and asked me what I was doing. I said, (sheepishly) "still arguing about Radiohead vs. Meat Loaf" He rolls his eyes and then goes, "that really isn't even an argument".
I only listed top 25 Matt- there are 500 albums listed.
#43- Dark Side of the Moon
#347- Pipers at the Break of Dawn
possibly more, but those are the two I caught.
Oh Matt, and the song "London Calling" they have listed as #1 of the 100 Greatest Songs of All Time (I thought you'd be interested to know).
Ok, I just laughed out loud when I read Rob's comment. That is exactly where I stand. You guys are funny.
Dang I'm a little bummed that I can't have the like, half-an-hour it to read all of that back. Funny, entertaining, but so not worth it. Radiohead and Meat Loaf? Really guys? Oh and also, I never got no stinking "love you kisses" on my birthday, but Mr. Cool-British-guy-who-likes-to-make-out-with-his-guitar-whose-name-is-probably-really-spelled-Johnny-but-spells-it-Jonny-cause-it-looks-more-indie gets one. I see how it is...
We aren't really doing love you kisses post this year (did we miss you last year? If so, we def owe you one.) For your info it is spelled "Jonny" because it is short for Jonathan, it's not serving as a nickname for John. Although Thom spells his "Thom", being short for Thomas, when many people with the same name spell it just "Tom". There is a long standing joke that Thom took Jonny's H. Maybe it's a British thing, I don't know, but I am sure this has been going on their whole lives before they even met or knew what "Indie" was.
You want that 30 seconds back? Well you can't have it.
Laughing about all this, too! As I mentioned very early in the notes, teasing and riling up Emily is a sport for me. She’s a formidable presence and, in general, I love trash talk, so this kind of banter is pure fun. Didn't realize anyone would really ever start defending positions. Music is too subjective for real argument, and our tastes and favorites emerge from our autobiographies.
For me, Meat Loaf's first Bat album came out when I was a senior in high school and it’s songs about trying to score with a girl down by the lake and all the other idiotic concerns of teenagers somehow caught hold with me—plus the intensity of the performances, of course. My high school friends and I would also go down to the Strand theater to see Rocky Horror. We weren’t motivated to dress up as the characters, but after the second or third time we definitely started bringing rice, toast, folded newspapers, and squirt guns and getting into all the shouting at the screen (A favorite: Riff Raff declares: “Dinner is served.” To which some people in the audience yell, “What’s for dinner?” and the rest of us yell, “Meat Loaf!”) and doing the Time Warp along with everyone else while waiting in line. Tons of fun!
I had a cassette version of Bat Out of Hell and would continue to play it in my car and room occasionally during college, but it wasn’t a huge part of my life. When Bat II came out in 1993, I heard a few singles on the radio (like “I’d Do Anything for Love…”) and it captivated me and those old memories again, so I bought it too. When we moved to Utah in July 1994, we arrived just a couple of days before Meat did a concert up at Park West (now The Canyons) and I really wished then we could have been settled in and I could have gone, but it didn’t happen.
Since then, almost my entire relationship with Meat Loaf has been a habit I got into of playing the first two Bat albums back-to-back whenever I had long drives in the car by myself. Time would fly as I’d scream every lyric without worrying about how bad my singing was/is (which truly IS terrible). I’d usually add in the whole Tommy album (The Who’s version, of course), singing all of it, as well. Next thing I knew, I had made it from SLC to Vegas or so without really having even thought about the long drive I was making.
That’s it! I don’t own any other albums of his. I can’t say I had even heard about Hang Cool Teddy Bear. I’m sure I now could only sing 80 percent of the lyrics of the first two Bat albums, but I’m cool with that and don’t feel compelled to go raiding any lyric sites to get myself back up to 100 percent. Maybe all this means I'm not a true fan (and I can tell I'm certainly not in the same way that Emily is with RH). Meat has a place in my heart and life story but I have no arguments to make for his being the greatest Rock and Roll singer of all time to anyone except me. It’s like if Haley were to claim that the Twilight books are the “best” books of all time. Our claims are simply based on how they captivated us at a certain time in our lives and have remained things of great affection.
If we kept going here, I’d challenge Matt on saying things like “true” music in defense of his and Em’s indie preferences if he meant that something being really popular makes it most likely fluff. I’d definitely keep digging at any pretentiousness that might arise in anyone’s defense of “their” music. In all of it, however, it would be sport. Pure sport.
Love you guys! Love arguing with you guys!
Sport is fun. And that is all it is from us too Dan. Hope you know that.
I was seriously kidding about the "true music" thing. And almost didn't say it, thinking it wouldn't go over well for the very reasons which you said.
AND HOLD ON A SEC... There are PLENTY of "popular" bands that I love. I would never say I didn't like something when inside I really do. No WAY. And the opposite is true. I am never ashamed to admit that I like a band, artist, or even just a song. And usually if I don't "like it", I at least respect it and can understand why someone would. I am quite opinionated at times though, on why I don't like something.
I love music way to much to base what I like on if it's popular enough, or too popular. What makes me mad, is that I get accused of being a music snob all the time, and sense that people think that about me. But don't come out and say it. I even posted a facebook status about it quite a while ago, naming five or six "Popular" artists that I love.
Example: The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Cake, Beastie Boys, Queen, Eve 6, Gwen Staffani, Cat Stevens, The Killers, Michael Jackson, Van Morrison, NEIL DIAMOND, Etc. I could keep going. Believe it or not, you know what song got in my head so much I ended up downloading it from itunes? That fairly new bubble gum pop song by The Ting Tings "That's not my name"
Good music is good. And what is good to one, is bad to another. And to Haley Phister, Kenny-G is her favorite Christmas album.
I might have to talk to B about taking a second loan out so I can hire a private investigator to get secret hidden camera footage of you freaking out to Meat Loaf in your car all alone! I think after seeing that footage, I would be like Cartman on Southpark when he see's something that is SO funny, he doesn't laugh. And never laughs at anything ever again, because nothing will ever be that funny.
Well Dan, I find 95% of what you said in your last post impossible to argue. YES music is very subjective and the greatest to one is not the greatest to another. I am happy in your explanation as to why you consider Meat Loaf to be the greatest. More power to you and go on with that. For real. (and I am not using a factious or condescending tone- I mean it!)
In the defense of the popular music thing: There have been times in my life where the popular music was what I loved the 90's Nirvana grunge era sticks out in my head. Before Kurt hit the scene though I hated the popular stuff and listened to classic rock. After grunge died I liked SOME popular stuff (Beastie Boys come to mind), but I retreated into stuff like The Cure for the most part. (Then Radiohead fell in my radar and all was lost.)
Snobbish or no, I just usually find popular music to be fluff. Sometimes fluff is ok, but I usually am looking for something different out of my music. I think my brain searches for something out of music that the general population does not. Who is to say what way is right? No one-- how your brain perceives and enjoys music is entirely up to that person's brain (there are plenty of people that can't stand and don't listen to anything other then Classical music- that's cool too). I think generally (and the charts support this) people are looking for a catchy tune or something they can dance to or a sappy love song that says exactly what their heart says too, etc. That's not me. Generally, the really catchy songs seem to be so void of anything interesting to me, I have no interest, I don't go to dance clubs, I used to like love songs a little more then I do now and I chalk that up to having found Rob, I feel like I don't need that anymore- I have the real stuff at home. Anyway, that's why I feel like I am not into popular music. I hope that doesn't sound like I consider myself above it or anything, I honestly just have little interest in pop. I don't think I look down on the people that like it, it's their bag, you know? There are also exceptions to these rules, right now I can't think of anything specific, but like Matt, if I come across a popular song that I like, I have no bones letting anyone know. I do admit to having a certain distaste for "artists" that come on to the scene that don't write songs, don't sing well, and get hit records because they were marketed well and are dressed like a doll and someone told everyone that they are the next big thing. I HATE that. I respect real talent, and will acknowledge it whether I find the music enjoyable or not. Ok, sometimes I have a hard time respecting country music and heavy metal. My brain doesn't function on normal levels when the two are played and thus, I admit an inablilty to recognize talent in these arenas.
I didn't say I was perfect.
Love me or leave me, these are my views. Also- I like all those bands Matt listed that he considers popular. The Beatles were/are popular- I like those guys.
"oh no, pop is dead,
it just gave up
we raise the dead but they won't stand up
and radio has salmonella
so what pop is dead
it's no great loss
so many facelifts, his face flew off"
-Radiohead, Pop is Dead
Night Ned. (That's mine and Matt's send off when we've been texting til 2 in the morning. It just seemed appropriate cause I'm tired.)
Holy freakin crap! I haven't checked my email for a couple of days and I open it and there are a million email alerts from these comments! AUGHAUGH!
Yes, admittedly, we got a little out of control.
Great stuff, guys! Fun to hear more about why you gravitate to where you do. In general I don't like the more popular songs/groups either; something will really have to get big before I even hear it as I don't listen to regular, contemporary hits-type radio and have to keep seeing repeated references to even notice. And I'm totally with Em on manufactured artists. I refuse to learn anything about the Miley, the Bieb, Ke$ha, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, etc. Hope will make me listen to songs of theirs sometimes, but otherwise I'm clueless (and deliberately so).
I've got three iTunes playlists--one with with my top 125, one with top 300ish, and one with my top 700 or so songs in them. If I'm listening at the computer while I work, it's always from one of these. When short-distance driving, nowadays its mostly podcasts and occasional NPR, but when it's music, its almost always from these lists or maybe an oldies or classic rock station. Creature of habit? Trapped in the past? I need a shrink...
At the computer during down time, I have begun to occasionally search for Arcade Fire and Pixies and Radiohead to see if I can find a way in. So far I have connected best with Arcade Fire. Thanks, guys, for talking about these groups and helping me try to expand my horizons. I'll keep exploring more with them.
Separate subject (okay, a "back to Meat Loaf" subject brief return): Do any of you like "Total Eclipse of the Heart" (Bonnie Tyler) or "Making Love Out of Nothing at All" (Air Supply)? It is totally interesting to me that I loved those songs/became obsessed almost when they first came out (and still like them a lot) only to learn much later that they were both written by Jim Steinman, who wrote the songs for the various Bat out of Hell albums of Meat Loaf. So maybe I'm really a Jim Steinman fan? Probably has a lot to do with it, though I still dig Meat's intensity and think he has a great voice.
Talk with you later...
Music was never a part of my life like it with you guys and Matt. Just a slip of DNA I guess. I do appreciate good music and talent, but don't eat, breathe and sleep over who is good or what I like etc. I watched the last half of Michael Jackson (this is it!) last night on my HDTV and choked up a little at the end. Dan: I too really, really liked and still do the Air Supply and Bonnie Tyler songs you mentioned. I even gave a talk to our youth when I was a Bishop using the theme "Making Love Out of Nothing at All". Think about it for a minute and you can think of lots of tie-ins to correct love relationships.
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